A Few Good Quotes:
"A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education,
and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a
poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward
after death." ~ Albert Einstein
"All religions, with their gods, demigods, prophets, messiahs and saints, are
the product of the fancy and credulity of men who have not yet reached the
full development and complete possession of their intellectual powers." ~
Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State (1871)
"A religion, even if it calls itself a religion of love, must be hard and
unloving to those who do not belong to it." ~ Sigmund Freud, Group Psychology
And The Analysis Of The Ego (1921)
About Me
- CyberKitten
- I have a burning need to know stuff and I love asking awkward questions.
21 comments:
axana said: I prefer to think that science and religion do not oppose each other, but rather they can support each other.
Hi axana - and welcome.
Clearly science & religion *need* not oppose each other but some religious people/groups do tend to try & muscle in on science's turf. The evolution/creation debate is the classic example of course.. as is the idea of a Young Earth... I'm sure there are many others.
I think the problem stems from the idea that the Bible (in particular) is literally true - when what it actually is - is a collection of myths, stories and morality tales mixed in with a few helpings of actual historical events. Taken as such there is no conflict with science. But when people start asserting that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old - well.. we have a problem. Because it isn't.
axana said: Scientists have now discovered that, chronologically, our planet is one day off.
Erm.. A day off what? That's certainly news to me. Do you have a source for that?
axana finally said: Just keep an open mind :)
I have a fairly open mind.. just not so open that my brain falls out [grin]. If you've read much of my Blog you'll know that I'm an atheist. I'm not just unsure about God.. I plainly don't believe in Him nor any of the other surrounding concepts - like the soul, heaven/hell etc.. On my good days I'm skeptical about the whole thing.. on my bad days.. I'm actively antagonistic...
Here's hoping you stick around. I'm sure we could have some interesting discussions.
In the Odessy Athene holds back the night to allow Odysseus & Penelope to re-discover each other too. It's a common theme in mythology - something that we can not do & proves the power of the God(s).
How can we be chronologically a day off? Is it suposed to be Saturday today? Or Thursday? Who would know? Source please.
Some more quotes:
The religious man pretends that every aspect of life has meaning for him, but in practise he constantly minimizes the noisier and vivider elements" Randolph Bourne
"Religious talk is a very feast to self deciet" Frederick W Faber
"What a travesty to think religion means saving my soul through my little good deeds and the rest of the world can go hang" Gerald Vann (especially for Simon, and his toast)
I chose these not because they are particularly anti-faith (two were written by theologians),but because they are anti dogmatic adherance to controlled thought, as found in so many religions/religious people in the world today.
Freud is a weirdo. His approach on "infantile sexuality" and his complex with his mother and father--he has some strange interpretations on God and why men have a need for God (something to do with all of us seeking love and attention from our earthly fathers)
I like your other quotes but after taking psychology courses in college for fun--I've come to the conclusion that while Freud is like the grandfather of the psychology movement and advancement--He's a pretty screwed up individual and I wouldn't boast his misgivings on any topic.
Sadie Lou said: I've come to the conclusion that while Freud is like the grandfather of the psychology movement and advancement--He's a pretty screwed up individual and I wouldn't boast his misgivings on any topic.
That's very true. Some of the things he came up with... I couldn't help thinking he was a few beers short of a six pack.
However....
Sadie also said: he has some strange interpretations on God and why men have a need for God (something to do with all of us seeking love and attention from our earthly fathers)
That bit probably has a LOT going for it.
I think it is sad and ironic that while groups give people most support and help, it is humanity when it starts grouping together, often on nationalist, ethnic, or religious lines, that humans then start the lovely business of deciding who isn't chosen, special, "one of us", or whatever. And those people are always much more disposable and sometimes even viewed as dispose-worthy. Often done by people saying their message is one of love/forgiveness/oneness/selflessness/perfectability.
And Freud was a loon, but had some good insights.
Axana: what's the standard for what day it should be (out of the billions of past days that are out there)?
Freud was completely nutso! And he drew conclusions from zero evidence! It was possibly the least enlightening read of my life.
Still, he obvioulsy managed a lucid moment or two, because that quote is spot on. Religions must be against non-believers by their very nature. The nicest ones try to "educate" us into joining them, most just either condemn us & actively attack us.
Mrs A said: The nicest ones try to "educate" us into joining them, most just either condemn us & actively attack us.
That's Humans for you... Very in-group/out-group... If you're one of 'us' you're fine and dandy... if you're one of 'them'' then watch out. Religion does seem to add fuel to that particular fire.
If you're one of 'us' you're fine and dandy... if you're one of 'them'' then watch out.
That's a misconception. Jesus made every opportunity to extinguish that kind of mentality among believers. He went out of His way to find where that "we are better than you" ideology was breeding and then he would preach against it. In fact, Jesus often told parables relating to that very issue. Just because somebelievers act that way doesn't make it common practice.
Sadie Lou - have a word with Simon will you 'cos we're all damned and he's going to heaven. (According to him????)
just observing, but didn't want to lurk!
Sadie Lou said: Just because somebelievers act that way doesn't make it common practice.
It does tend to be the human way though. Any group tends to be protective of its members and cautious of 'outsiders'. Religion can produce (though doesn't *have* to) stronger feelings in both directions.
Here's another for your arsenal:
If God listened to the prayers of men, all men would quickly have perished: for they are forever praying for evil against one another.
Epicurus
~Mike
Nice one... We can still learn a lot from the Greek philosophers. I read some Seneca a while back. It certainly showed that 'human nature' hasn't changed much since his day...
Dave, do you mean Simon from the bible?
SadieLou, we're talking about Sinon fron Upriht & Breahing who basically started this whole religious debate with his vehement defence of creationism on Dave's blog a while back.
Only CK had much of an interest in discusing religion before thta:-)
Simon has since mentioned that I have cursed my family for ten geneations and everyone who doesn't believe the bible to be the exact truth (even if they've never even heard of it), and go to church at least once a week every week of the year will be "toast" when they are dead, while he will be cavorting with virgins in heaven.
Mrs A said: Only CK had much of an interest in discusing religion before that:-)
[snigger] Well, everyone should have a hobby.
Mrs A said: Simon has since mentioned that I have cursed my family for ten geneations and everyone who doesn't believe the bible to be the exact truth (even if they've never even heard of it), and go to church at least once a week every week of the year will be "toast" when they are dead, while he will be cavorting with virgins in heaven.
Really....? Simon said that.....? Wow.
r10b said: Four millenia of the two most significant religions in human history dismantled and the faith of untold millions invalidated with a few pecks on cyberkitten's keyboard.
Actually I thought that was a fair (though very brief) assessment. Myth (Genesis etc), stories (parables), morality tales (this is the way to behave/look what happens when you do the wrong thing) and bits of (jewish)history. Or are you going to tell me that every word of the Bible is literally true? I have a hard time understanding why christians in particular have bought into that idea. The consequences of that belief must give them some serious headaches - and look at all the conflict & confusion its already caused.
If the Bible is viewed (as I think it was supposed to be viewed) as a collection of myths, stories and morality tales mixed in with a few helpings of actual historical events a lot of peoples problems with religion would go away. Only a literal interpretation causes problems.
Oh yeah, I think I was cursed when I said that I had read the bible, but didn't believe it, and the toast comment was on Dave's blog:-)
We still try with him though. You're welcome to come back and help out any time.
Mrs A said: We still try with him though. You're welcome to come back and help out any time.
Life is too short for that kind of thing... and it would only give him a false sense of satisfaction that I couldn't stay away...
I may provide you with ammunition here though.. [grin]
r10b said: Far from being an argument against the validity of the Bible and its message, the distain many (most) people have towards the Bible, Jesus and God is another piece of evidence for it.
That's certainly an interesting viewpoint.
Firstly do "many (most) people feel distain towards the Bible, Jesus and God"..? Which country are you talking about?
.. and why does this 'distain' give the Bible any (more) validity than it had before? What do you mean by 'validity'..? Validity to whom?
r10b also said: whether strictly literal or a mix of literal and metaphorical
Which bits are which? Is there a mixture or is it all literal or (indeed) all metaphorical? How can you tell the difference? Do people agree which is which? If disagreement exist - I'm sure they do - then how do you decide between the two views?
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