Had a discussion about this subject the other day. A friend of mine posted a video by some guy named Molotov Mitchell claiming that since the Declaration of Independence mentioned a creator endowing inalienable rights that the rights then defined in the constitution came from God and if we eliminate God from government then we lose those rights.
I didn't point out the irony of taking away rights by forcing Christianity on people to protect their rights. I did point out that even if their logic was correct, Jefferson wrote the bulk of the DoI and so we would be talking about Jefferson's concept of God, Ie nature's god, and not YAHWEH.
Even though many of the founding fathers were men of faith they were smart enough to know that if they legislated based on one of their faiths that one day another faith may be in power and turn the tables on them.
The rights we have as American citizens are obviously granted by our all-too-human lawmakers, not God. However, the belief that human beings are God's creation grounded the Founding Father convictions regarding individual rights.
Rights *CAN'T* be "granted" by humans. They're either natural or g-d granted depending on your beliefs, but most certainly not by other humans. If they're given by men, they're not rights at all, just permission. Or privileges.
That being said, I don't see anything in the comic that references rights at all.
The comic is about people trying to claim the founding fathers wanted a religion based society, my discussion with my friend was sparked by the issue of rights. That's what brought up the subject.
If rights are natural or given by some higher power, how are we to know what they are?
The pushing of God and Christianity in our country is very scary. The Christian "Right" seems to be a very very powerful lobby. Deliveer Me, PLEEEEEASE!
Thanks for stopping by today, my dear...I have not been a very faithful reader....Too much going on in the World World---my world that is....
How is Craziequeen? I worry about her....Hope she is doing better and do give her my love!
I was once given a very good illustration of what governs 'rights' in any culture or society by an old philosophy professor.
He first indicated that we had a choice, we can chose to live as a member of some society/culture of which we are part or we could chose to do or our thing.
Now... being a member of any society has inherent 'rules'. Generally you don't kill each other, you don't take stuff from others, and you try to consider how your actions impact others so as to get 'along'. These are rather obvious as anyone can determine that not following such rules would lead quickly to anarchy and the break down of society. Life, Liberty and property more or less.
If you don't like it this way you can go do your own thing, but that means operating outside of society and doing so kinda limits you because no one is making your bread, building your TV, or managing the electrical grid.
This is common sense. It's remarkably Christian, but Christ was rather big on common sense. It's also a very funamental thing that dates back to Plato and his 'Republic'.
Of course... sadly... since we're all human and we generally don't view the choice as 'obey the rules or go find some island' we will try to get whatever we can from both society, and what we want. Hence the REST of the material in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights (and the thousands of law books that exist today...).
Cartoon Time.
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Had a discussion about this subject the other day. A friend of mine posted a video by some guy named Molotov Mitchell claiming that since the Declaration of Independence mentioned a creator endowing inalienable rights that the rights then defined in the constitution came from God and if we eliminate God from government then we lose those rights.
I didn't point out the irony of taking away rights by forcing Christianity on people to protect their rights. I did point out that even if their logic was correct, Jefferson wrote the bulk of the DoI and so we would be talking about Jefferson's concept of God, Ie nature's god, and not YAHWEH.
Even though many of the founding fathers were men of faith they were smart enough to know that if they legislated based on one of their faiths that one day another faith may be in power and turn the tables on them.
Jefferson's first-panel comment is ridiculous.
The rights we have as American citizens are obviously granted by our all-too-human lawmakers, not God. However, the belief that human beings are God's creation grounded the Founding Father convictions regarding individual rights.
LB - Both the 1st & 2nd panel of the cartoon are direct quotes from Jefferson himself.
The first is from a letter to Horatio G Spafford dated 17th March 1814.
The second is from a letter to Dr Thomas Cooper dated 10th Feb 1814.
As I have just noticed is mentioned on the bottom of the cartoon itself... so I think "ridiculous" is rather misplaced, don't you?
Rights *CAN'T* be "granted" by humans. They're either natural or g-d granted depending on your beliefs, but most certainly not by other humans. If they're given by men, they're not rights at all, just permission. Or privileges.
That being said, I don't see anything in the comic that references rights at all.
The comic is about people trying to claim the founding fathers wanted a religion based society, my discussion with my friend was sparked by the issue of rights. That's what brought up the subject.
If rights are natural or given by some higher power, how are we to know what they are?
I believe that rights are neither natural nor (obviously) God given.
In fact I'm not even sure what "Rights" mean.... [thinks]
Something to read up on I think....... Watch this space.
The pushing of God and Christianity in our country is very scary. The Christian "Right" seems to be a very very powerful lobby. Deliveer Me, PLEEEEEASE!
Thanks for stopping by today, my dear...I have not been a very faithful reader....Too much going on in the World World---my world that is....
How is Craziequeen? I worry about her....Hope she is doing better and do give her my love!
I was once given a very good illustration of what governs 'rights' in any culture or society by an old philosophy professor.
He first indicated that we had a choice, we can chose to live as a member of some society/culture of which we are part or we could chose to do or our thing.
Now... being a member of any society has inherent 'rules'. Generally you don't kill each other, you don't take stuff from others, and you try to consider how your actions impact others so as to get 'along'. These are rather obvious as anyone can determine that not following such rules would lead quickly to anarchy and the break down of society. Life, Liberty and property more or less.
If you don't like it this way you can go do your own thing, but that means operating outside of society and doing so kinda limits you because no one is making your bread, building your TV, or managing the electrical grid.
This is common sense. It's remarkably Christian, but Christ was rather big on common sense. It's also a very funamental thing that dates back to Plato and his 'Republic'.
Of course... sadly... since we're all human and we generally don't view the choice as 'obey the rules or go find some island' we will try to get whatever we can from both society, and what we want. Hence the REST of the material in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights (and the thousands of law books that exist today...).
Okay, I'm going to have to steal this one for a local political blog. Love it btw!
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