About Me

My photo
I have a burning need to know stuff and I love asking awkward questions.

Monday, March 15, 2010

Thinking About: Atheism

Looking at it from the inside I consider my Atheism not only to be reasonable but to be the only reasonable stand on the subject. Consequently I find other people’s religious beliefs to be frankly inexplicable. This may be because I have never actually been of the religious persuasion and so have no personal experiences to draw upon. Although I can understand that people believe in God (or variations thereof) I do not understand why they believe in God – despite friends and bloggers trying to explain it to me. What confounds me even further is why there are so few atheists in the world.

I don’t think it’s because we have evolved ‘religious brains’ either naturally or through the hand of God. I’m certainly unaware of any studies that show a difference in brain structure or function between those who believe and those who don’t. It certainly isn’t the strength of the religious arguments put forward for the existence of God which I personally find laughably inadequate. I think the proposal that beliefs are transmitted across the generations in such a way to guarantee an adherence to a particular religion has some merit but doesn’t explain why, later in life, more people don’t question the beliefs of their parents/sub-culture and reject them. I don’t believe that the vast majority of people are that deeply indoctrinated. I understand that studies have shown that religious communities are more stable, happier and longer lived than non-religious ones. There may be something to this though I suspect that things are never quite that simple. However, even if this is true would it or should it be enough for a reasonable person to adopt a belief system they suspect may be false just because it makes them happier? I would hope not, but then again I’m sure than many of us are aware that people generally want a comforting illusion rather than an inconvenient and uncomfortable truth.

Of course one possible reason why there are so few atheists is that we’re quite simply wrong. Or, as some theists attest, we are childishly rebelling against God so that we can sin with a clear conscience. Moving beyond the sheer offensiveness of comments such as those it does tend to presuppose that so-called sinful behaviour is much more prevalent in the non-theist community (does such a thing exist I wonder) than the theist one. I think that recent revelations within the Catholic Church in particular put paid to that tired assumption. Also such an attitude seems to be predicated on the belief that there are no real atheists and those who profess to be such actually secretly believe in God – indeed some of them are so secretive that they don’t even know they believe in God. Of course this so-called ‘argument’ could very easily be turned on its head and aimed right back at the theist who proposes it. Maybe, it could be said, the theist secretly believes that there is no God and simply practices their religion to cover up their secret atheism. Indeed, such doubt could be buried so deeply in their psyche that they are consciously unaware of it. No matter what their behaviour or protestations to the contrary they are in fact atheists – I mean, how could you possibly prove otherwise?

I guess that I’m lucky in that I had the good fortune to be born in a place and an age where religious belief is largely irrelevant. Feeling and believing as I do, I could not bring myself to live in large portions of the world without finding myself increasingly aggravated and saddened by the beliefs of people around me. No matter where I was accidently born I would have, I think, moved to Europe where my lack of belief goes largely unremarked. I have no idea what the future holds for atheism. I would hope that it increases both in geographical and numerical senses but if such a thing does occur I wager that it will be a long and painful process. But despite rumours to the contrary atheism is far from dead. Such thoughts represent the wishful thinking of those theists who smugly think that they are in possession of the answers to questions we atheists would barely acknowledge as being questions – never mind important ones. Despite the staggering number of people who think otherwise I think that my beliefs (or actually lack of belief) on the subject are substantially correct. Truth is not a numbers game. Common, and indeed learned, opinion on many subjects in the past – the plethora of early abandoned religions amongst them - have been understood by later generations to be spectacularly wrong and I suspect that, if such a thing is even possible, religion in its many forms will eventually be shown to be just another failed group of beliefs. If something like that does happen it’ll long after I and anyone reading this are dead and forgotten. It’s a nice thought though.

8 comments:

Karla said...

Cyber, I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this topic. Very well articulated, amusing at times in a good way, and very thought provoking.

Cyber “However, even if this is true would it or should it be enough for a reasonable person to adopt a belief system they suspect may be false just because it makes them happier.”

I would say no. However, I have talked with an atheist recently, not through my blog, who told me that since there is no grand Truth, it was okay to believe something for reasons of personal satisfaction as long as it didn’t hurt anyone else. He argued that religion could be good when it remained a private personal truth. This was not good enough for me, because I see truth as that which is, or that which accurately corresponds to reality—including philosophical truth. So for me there is no reason to hold a personal belief that does not do that no matter how happy it may make me. I value truth over personal satisfaction though I think the real truth will satisfy even though all things that satisfy are not necessarily true.

I really appreciate atheists for their resilience to hold to that which lines up with reality. We share that value. However, the down side is when one rules out that which is not physical as that which is not real.


Cyber “Also such an attitude seems to be predicated on the belief that there are no real atheists and those who profess to be such actually secretly believe in God – indeed some of them are so secretive that they don’t even know they believe in God.”

lol. I actually heard someone give this argument the other day. They said that a base question often used when someone is undergoing a lie detector is “do you believe in God?” Those that said no, almost always were detected as lying, or so the story went. I do not know where the source of this study came from, but I did think your point very well, albeit humorously, made.

CyberKitten said...

karla said: I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this topic. Very well articulated, amusing at times in a good way, and very thought provoking.

Thanks. I try.

karla said: I value truth over personal satisfaction though I think the real truth will satisfy even though all things that satisfy are not necessarily true.

Agreed.

karla said: However, the down side is when one rules out that which is not physical as that which is not real.

That depends on what you mean by 'real'. Many things are real and are not physical in the sense I think you mean. Ideas, thoughts, emotions, beliefs and much else besides are not physical in the sense that you can't hold them in your hands - but that doesn't stop them from being real.

karla said: They said that a base question often used when someone is undergoing a lie detector is “do you believe in God?” Those that said no, almost always were detected as lying, or so the story went.

Lie detectors don't actually detect lies - they detect stress. Even if the study was real - which I seriously doubt - it doesn't mean what you might think it means.

wstachour said...

I think there ARE believers, of course; but I think a large percentage of those who count themselves as believers don't accept the stock beliefs with anything like the force that checking "yes" on the belief ballot implies.

And I think there are a whole lot of "believers" who know it's all just a fantasy. The question then becomes why they think a public adherence to something they feel is false is somehow better than simply acknowledging their doubts? (I suspect community pressure and social coherence are up on that list.)

Lastly, I think there is a tendency to lump the big, unanswerable (at present) questions into the "cosmic mystery" bin, and for many folks a professed synchronicity with the local religion is a way--a socially-acceptable way--of acknowledging that bin.

Beyond this, most arguments seem to be little mental exercises in the form of damage control. So much of religion has fallen to the ongoing march of rationality--indeed, so much of value in the modern world is absolutely predicated upon it--that these damage control muscles have been well-exercised (if tortuously knotted in the attempt).

Good post.

Thomas Fummo said...

Very good post :-)
I would say that my only animosity is only against organised religion. Personal belief, I have no problem with. An actual religious -almost political - institution that sees fit to tell everyone who is right and who is wrong is something I just can't stand.
I wouldn't go as far to categorically state that a god or gods exist or not... I'm inclined towards saying that there probably isn't a god... but most of the time it's not something I worry a lot about. I try to live my life free from questions to which no one will ever find a convincing enough answer. The universe is so mind-numbingly big that anything is possible.

All I know is that one time, I was in love with a girl who was fervently catholic.
One time I jokingly asked her if she honestly believed that, seeing as I hadn't been baptised at birth, I would go to hell or purgatory or be punsihed in the afterlife in some way.
She didn't answer.

Karla said...

Cyber “That depends on what you mean by 'real'. Many things are real and are not physical in the sense I think you mean. Ideas, thoughts, emotions, beliefs and much else besides are not physical in the sense that you can't hold them in your hands - but that doesn't stop them from being real.”

I agree with that 100%. I would add spirituality to that list though.


I think Christians think atheists are bluffing sometimes because the reality of God is so real to us we cannot conceive of those who can't see that.

3NINO, I see no reason to force someone to believe something they don't believe, but I would say that if something is true privately it is also true and useful publicly. This does not give someone grounds for forcing belief politically or otherwise, but grounds for sharing it so others can experience the good truth.

dbackdad said...

I agree with Wunelle - there are a lot more people that don't actually believe in God than statistics would indicate. Much like the Jewish community (where a large percentage don't actually believe in God), I think that there are a growing number of Christians who stay in the church and even say they "believe" for reasons of socialization, tradition, and family, but don't really think there is a God.

Like you guys, I find the suggestion that atheists are atheists just so that they can sin without guilt is ridiculous. If anything, atheists more acutely see the effects that their actions having on the real world and are less likely to do harm because they know this is the only world they have. I think that some Christians (not all) actually use religion as a crutch and think they have a free pass to sin because they know they will be forgiven. Or they think that some action they do (war, for example) is OK because it is divinely approved.

CyberKitten said...

wunelle said: So much of religion has fallen to the ongoing march of rationality--indeed, so much of value in the modern world is absolutely predicated upon it--that these damage control muscles have been well-exercised (if tortuously knotted in the attempt).

I do see a lot of bending over backwards and knot tying going on - especially where some people question the age of the Earth or to try and justify so-called Intelligent Design.

TF said: I'm inclined towards saying that there probably isn't a god... but most of the time it's not something I worry a lot about.

Indeed. It's a moderately interesting bit of intellectual fun - but that's about it.

TF said: The universe is so mind-numbingly big that anything is possible.

Given enough space-time.... [grin]

karla said: I would add spirituality to that list though.

Only in the sense that its a 'real' belief.....

karla said: I think Christians think atheists are bluffing sometimes because the reality of God is so real to us we cannot conceive of those who can't see that.

....and some have problems conceiving of the idea that their beliefs could be mistaken....

karla said: grounds for sharing it so others can experience the good truth.

You mean their *concept* of the truth. Sharing beliefs is OK but I don't knock on strangers doors selling my atheism......

dbackdad said: If anything, atheists more acutely see the effects that their actions having on the real world and are less likely to do harm because they know this is the only world they have.

Especially compared to those people who are trying to advance the date of the 'Rapture'.

boomSLANG said...

"I think Christians think atheists are bluffing sometimes because the reality of God is so real to us we cannot conceive of those who can't see that."

But yet, Christians are the ones who tell atheists that "God" deliberately hides from us(or as some Xians like to say, "for us"). Given that, I really fail to see why it would be such a shock to Christians that atheists "can't see" that "God is so real".

There is absolutely no reason, whatsoever, that "God" needs to "hide". "God" supposedly made numerous physical appearances in the bible, and that didn't hurt anyone's "free will".

The "Divine hiddenness of God" argument is out-moded, illogical, and just plain silly.