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Sunday, January 21, 2007

Why I am a Vegetarian

I pride myself in being rational about things – or at least trying to be rational. That philosophy informs the way I view the world, why I don’t believe in the Supernatural and much else besides. However, deep down my reasons for being a veggie are more emotional than rational.

This is the second time I’ve been a vegetarian. The first time lasted about six months. So far this time I’ve been meat-free for about 8-9 years. My family have never been what I would call big meat-eaters. We never had meat with every meal. Probably in the early days it was because we just couldn’t afford it. Later I guess it was a Sunday treat but even then meat was never a big thing in our lives.

What probably started me off as a long term veggie was seeing a Sunday roast defrosting in my Mothers kitchen. As it defrosted it started leaking blood into the kitchen sink and made me realise just what we were about to eat. It turned my stomach and I informed my Mother that I wouldn’t be having any roast that day. After that I couldn’t look at meat in quite the same way. It was as if something had shifted in my mind enabling me to see the trade in animals in a new light.

Animal welfare issues certainly had an impact on my early vegetarianism. They way we treat or food animals is often deeply disturbing and I think that most people are in real denial about the whole issue. That’s why meat is often packaged not to look like lumps of dead flesh. That’s why meat is often pre-prepared so that people don’t have to get their hands dirty and are reminded that the creature they are about to eat was (fairly recently) a living, breathing creature.

The other issue that informed my growing revulsion with meat eating was that of health. I’ve lost count of the number of health scares associated with modern farming practices. The big one for a lot of people was a BSE crisis of course where the disturbing practice of feeding herbivores their dead brethren came to light. The long term effect of this practice on the human population is still unknown.

Stopping eating meat has been pretty easy for me. At the time most of my friend were veggies as was my girlfriend – though I subsequently found out she ate fish from time to time. My Mother had some difficulty understanding my new dietary requirements but after a few misunderstandings adapted to the idea. The range of vegetarian food in the supermarkets helped too of course. I got some fairly gentle ribbing from my meat-eating friends but nothing I couldn’t handle.

I can’t really envisage ever going back to eating meat. Not without a radical shift in my beliefs anyway. Obviously if it was a matter of life and death my choice not to eat meat would come second but apart from that…. It’s strange actually that the longer I’m a vegetarian the more the idea of eating meat disgusts me. I’m not entirely clear why that is so. As I said earlier my vegetarianism is based far more on emotion than on reason. Why that is so I’ve yet to determine.

Though I do feel deeply about the issue I’m certainly not a ‘fundamentalist’ about it. Though I would not cook meat in my house I’ve had no objections to people ordering meat-based pizza during some of the get-togethers I’ve held here. Likewise I’ve been to BBQ’s at peoples houses where the provided a separate BBQ for the attending veggies. I have no problem sitting next to meat-eaters in restaurants and tend to keep my views to myself – unless asked. Funnily my vegetarianism was questioned some time ago when I mentioned that I had a cat. Apparently such a thing invalidated me being a veggie. Sure my cat was a meat eater but it’s not like she had any choice in the matter. Cats need a meat based diet to live. Unlike dogs (which are omnivorous like ourselves) cats are true carnivores and need meat to remain healthy. I know dogs can live quite happily on a vegetarian diet but personally I wouldn’t seek to impose my beliefs onto my pets even if I could. I do not expect friends and family members to hold my views on the subject nor would I even think of cutting them out of my life because of their dietary habits. That’s just silly.

Reading back I’m not sure that I’ve explained myself very well. Maybe it’s because I’m trying to rationalise something which, at least for me, isn’t all that rational. Part of an explanation is possibly a ‘leakage’ of one of my philosophical beliefs about the human realm into the animal one. I believe that people are and should be treated as ends in themselves and not as a means to an end. That means we shouldn’t be using other people to get what we want out of life, that other people should be treated with more respect than that. Likewise I’m increasing coming to the opinion that we shouldn’t be treating animals as objects for our own exclusive use, that just because we can feed them and then eat them doesn’t make it right that we can do so.

As I said in the previous veggie post I never expected this ‘argument’ to be logical, coherent or rational. It does feel very much like a work in progress still. Ask me again in ten years when I’ve had a chance to think about it a bit more.

14 comments:

CyberKitten said...

Lux asked: How far apart were the two periods?

Not sure. Maybe five or so years.

Lux said: I'm guessing, since IIRC you're in your early 40s, the episode where "seeing a Sunday roast defrosting in my Mothers kitchen" happened before you first period as a veggie

Nope. That was the 2nd time. I actually moved out when I went to University... but I do go back to visit from time to time & on those ocassions my Mum cooks for me/the family.

Why did I go back after my first 6 month trial period...? Probably habit more than anything else & the fact that I wasn't as committed the first time.

Laura said...

I certainly agree with you about the treatment of animals, especially with industrialized farming. It's nearly impossible to find meat products that come from farms that treat the animals respectfully and humanely, especially when you live in a large city. I know that sounds contradictory to some, but I am someone who believes that one can eat meat and still be respectful to the creatures being eaten (like indigenous peoples often do).

I certainly think that if we could pass legislation that seriously protected farm animals from abusive (aka cost-cutting) practices, that by sheer supply and demand people would eat less meat because it would be less available and more expensive.

You might be interested in emerging literature linking vegetarianism to eco-feminism. It's very similar to your last argument - that women and animals are both objectified as a class of creatures by male society.

If it's any consolation, I think you make perfect sense here.

dbackdad said...

Sounds fine to me. I certainly understand and respect all your reasons (and agree with them). I've went though veggie stages in my own life.

But I grew up on small Iowa farms, so the sight of all of the steps of the process of getting food to the table are familiar to me. And it's passed the point where any of them make me squeamish. But I also saw how in the correct manner, it could be a humane process. But I still fight to make sure that this process is as humane as possible. We recently passed Prop 204 out here to make sure that calves weren't confined in veal crates and also to prohibit the confinement of breeding pigs in gestation crates.

And it's really hard to draw an absolute line in the sand. Where does one stop? Can one eat eggs, drink milk? Have leather shoes?

Would most domesticated farm animals even still exist if we had not domesticated them thousands of years ago?

Of course, just because something is hard doesn't mean it shouldn't be a goal to strive for.

All this is just a longwinded way of me saying that I've sufficiently rationalized eating meat to myself. Nothing like a juicy chunk of cow once in awhile. :-)

CyberKitten said...

dbackdad said: And it's really hard to draw an absolute line in the sand. Where does one stop? Can one eat eggs, drink milk? Have leather shoes?

Indeed it is. Personally I drink milk, eat eggs and wear leather shoes & jackets. I know that some purists would throw up their hands in horror at such things but I can rationalise such things..

dbackdad asked: Would most domesticated farm animals even still exist if we had not domesticated them thousands of years ago?

Possibly.. Possibly not.

Laura said: You might be interested in emerging literature linking vegetarianism to eco-feminism.

I've heard about that.

Laura said: It's very similar to your last argument - that women and animals are both objectified as a class of creatures by male society.

Did I say that? Its certainly true that many things are commodified by capitalist society including animals and women.

Finally Laura said: If it's any consolation, I think you make perfect sense here.

Thanks Laura. For everything there is a first time - me making perfect sense, that is.

Laura said...

Oh, no I meant your argument that we treat animals as objects for our own use. Ecofeminists make that same argument, but add women in there as well.

goal10der said...

Of course I thought you made sense here as well. In my opinion, as in other discussions I've partaken in here, so long as you're not pushing your beliefs on people, which you're not, I completely respect you for the choices you've made.

However, I'm kinda hungry now, is that wrong?

Juggling Mother said...

As I said, your choice to be a veggie is your choice, and you are welcome to chose anything that doesn't harm individuals or society (I'm not sure what the stats are on jobs.... probably slghtly morein meat farming than crop farming for the samearea of land/amount of food produced, but I don't think even the most ardent food fascist would be able to make much of an argument there *smile*), but as you said, it seems very irrational to me.

"Animal welfare issues certainly had an impact" and "I’ve lost count of the number of health scares associated with modern farming practices" It's pretty easy to buy organic here - even in the cities as all the supermarkets have a massively expanding range (nothing to do with the 150% mark-up on "organic" foods, honest!), and out in the suburbs and countryside (ie: very close to you) there are no end of farm shops and farmers markets.

"Part of an explanation is possibly a ‘leakage’ of one of my philosophical beliefs about the human realm into the animal one" Wow, all animals should be treated as self-aware? To what extent? How does drinking milk square with that view? (dairy cows have a horrible life if looked at from a human emotions pov).

Vegetarianism is a lifestyle choice that only the rich(er), western intellectuals have on offer. Your "distaste" of eating meat is in the same league as westerners "distaste" of discussing bodily functions. It is an irrational socioloical repression, and nothing to do with health, nature or reason. It does nothing to improve animal welfare, and is unlikely to have muchg of an impact on your personal health (although veggies are some of the healthier groups in the UK, it is likely more because people who become vegguies are more likely to eat a varied diet, excercise and take care of themselves).

You are welcome to do it if you wish, but to me it smacks of self-denial due to a misguided faith.

Paste said...

I've arrived very much too late as JM has said just about exactly what I was going to say!

CyberKitten said...

JM said: your choice to be a veggie is your choice, and you are welcome to chose anything that doesn't harm individuals or society

I don't believe that being a veggie is harming anyone.

JM said: It's pretty easy to buy organic here

Yup & Free Range etc... all moves in the right direction.

JM asked: Wow, all animals should be treated as self-aware? To what extent?

That's not what I meant. I was trying (and failing) to explain some of my admittedly woolly thinking about why I don't think we should use (and abuse) animals to the extent we do. It's certainly not a hard & fast belief more of a 'leakage' from other beliefs. Food animals are certainly 'used' for our benefit. They may be cared for in the short term but are ultimately there to be killed & eaten at a later date. They are mostly not treated as baddly (as disposable objects) these days but it still bothers me when you see thousands of chickens packed into a small space.

JM said: Your "distaste" of eating meat is in the same league as westerners "distaste" of discussing bodily functions. It is an irrational socioloical repression, and nothing to do with health, nature or reason.

I don't agree (obviously). Vegetarianism has a very long history even in the West and probably an even longer one in the East. There are both reasonable and irrational arguments for the stance - some of which I'm outlined here.

JM said: You are welcome to do it if you wish, but to me it smacks of self-denial due to a misguided faith.

Strong words indeed [grin]. I don't feel that I am denying myself anything - OK, maybe bacon but I can live without it... Nor do I think that I am 'misguided' whatever you mean by that.

As I have stated several times, my reasons for becoming a vegetarian are not fully clear even to me so I'm not entirely surprised that other people fail to understand them. Some of my reasons are at least partially rational, others are emotional, the rest... [shrugs] who knows. But whatever the basis for my choice I'm not planning to go back to eating meat anytime soon.

JR said...

I grew up seeing deer gutted, picking pellets out of squirrel and being generally grossed out by the whole meat eating ordeal, but I couldn't deny I liked the taste of the deer, not the squirrel, and we were very poor and hungry. So I just adjusted my frame of mind to it's eat or be eaten during the winter. Today, I still love the taste of a good steak, but I don't eat a lot of meat. I stick to mostly chicken and fish, and when I eat meat, unless it's especially tasty, I don't eat large amounts. In theory I think I'd like to be a vegetarian, then I smell a steak cooking on a grill and am hopelessly back among the meat eaters. *sigh* I admire people who have the self-discipline to do it, my daughter included.

dbackdad said...

JM said: You are welcome to do it if you wish, but to me it smacks of self-denial due to a misguided faith. -- Wow. That's way harsh. I can almost picture you as Ted Nugent out in a field shooting some defenseless animal and rationalizing it in some overblown way ... the way Ted is prone to do.

Whatever choices a person makes concerning what they eat or don't eat shouldn't elicit such a response.

You may consider CK's rationalization for vegetarianism not fleshed out (bad pun, I know) but, personally, I consider my own rationalization for eating meat as being no better. Many of us have visceral reactions to things (art, books, food, etc.) that we can't exactly put into words. But I believe those emotional reactions are just important as the intellectual component of our likes and dislikes. We're not automatons.

Juggling Mother said...

dbackdad - actually I'm passionately against the unneccesary cruelty to and killing of animals. I happily voiced my opinions against fox hunting long before Labour finally got around to banning it. However, I do not consider killing for food to be wrong when done by humans, cats or alligators.

I used the terminology in an ironical sense to say CK's "reasoning" was as reasoned as someone of faith saying they believe in God because they believe in God. Fair enough, and it's his belief, but an irrational one imo. I think that CK knows me well enough to understand that it was meant ironically and not as a condemnation - which is why I started the comment with "your choice to be a veggie is your choice, and you are welcome to chose anything... "

I'm sure CK knows I have no problem with his being a veggie, and will happily make adjustments when he comes visiting (we are the friends with the special veggie BBQ that has never had meat on it!), but I don't see why I shouldn't argue with his beliefs the same way as I argue with others (and others argue with mine).

CyberKitten said...

JM said: I used the terminology in an ironical sense to say CK's "reasoning" was as reasoned as someone of faith saying they believe in God because they believe in God. Fair enough, and it's his belief, but an irrational one imo.

As I've said several times I'm not exactly sure why I feel the way I do about eating meat. It's definitely more of an emotional thing rather than a rational, logical one. As with most people I have tried (maybe for the first time here) to at least rationalise part of the reason behind my belief that eating meat is wrong.

Saying this I do not expect other people to become vegetarians because of what *I* believe to be true - that's just silly.

As dbackdad said I am not an automaton. I am not wholly rational or logical. I may admire the Vulcans on Star Trek but I'm 100% human and being so do not always make sense even to myself. My reasons (as far as I know what they are) for being a veggie are good enough for me. I certainly don't *feel* misguided or deluded about my dietry habits - though of course I may be.

Strange how something so ordinary can produce controversy....

OldLady Of The Hills said...

It is very interesting what you said about seeing that meat thawing out and watching the blood drain from it..That image would probably make me a vegetarian too! In fact, I am not a veggie, but I eat very little to none Red Meat, of any kind....I do eat chicken, Turkey and fish...but, I think I might be able to give them up if I had to....there have been long periods of time I have eaten almost ALL vegetables of one kind or another....And I think my desires for food are ALL emotional.
It certainly seems that you are a full fledged Veggie Person and you have been for a very long time...8 or 9 years...! WOW! I know quite a few Veggies---in fact I would say about one quarter of the people I know are Vegetarians, including a niece of mine abd her husband and children....I think it is a very wonderful and healthy way of life....Gee, I may just have to give it a go....! (lol)