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I have a burning need to know stuff and I love asking awkward questions.

Thursday, July 05, 2007

Theologian damns most Britons to hell

By Stephen Bates for The Guardian

Thursday May 24, 2007

Ninety-five per cent of Britons are heading for hell, according to the principal of Wycliffe Hall, Oxford, who has been under fire from some staff for taking one of the leading Anglican theological training colleges in a conservative direction. Richard Turnbull, appointed two years ago, made the claim in a speech to the annual conference of Reform, a conservative evangelical pressure group within the Church of England. If he truly believes it, the figure would encompass at least all non-evangelical Christians, including many members of the Church of England, and those of all other religions and none.

A recording of the speech, made in October last year and seen by the Guardian, was posted last night on the Thinking Anglicans liberal website. In it, Dr Turnbull also warns against the danger of liberalism in the church, talks of "the strategic nature" of evangelical control of training colleges and calls on conservatives to syphon off 10% of their financial contributions to the Church of England to help pay the costs of like-minded colleges. The message excludes even evangelicals who are regarded as more liberal in their beliefs. Dr Turnbull told them: "We are committed to bringing the gospel message of Jesus Christ to those who don't know [him] and in this land that's 95% of the people: 95% of people facing hell unless the message of the gospel is brought to them."

Traditionally Wycliffe, a permanent private hall of Oxford University founded in 1877, has trained evangelical Anglicans for the clergy, but its reputation has been as an open evangelical college, welcoming would-be ordinands from a wide range of theological and liturgical beliefs. Critics within the college have accused the principal of taking it in a much more restrictive and exclusionary direction. At least a third of the academic staff have resigned and its best-known member, the Thought for the Day contributor Elaine Storkey, has been threatened with disciplinary action, allegedly for raising concerns at an internal staff meeting.

In his speech, the principal criticised the Church of England for "restrictive trade practices" in limiting funding for its students and added: "I view [my] post as strategic because it would allow influence to be brought to bear upon generations of the ministry...capture the theological colleges and you have captured the influence that is brought to bear." He warns that unless like-minded parishes fund colleges such as his own, they face closure within 10 years. At the same conference in Derbyshire, Reform members agreed to remain within the Church of England for the time being but to set up an advisory panel to support conservative clergy and encourage ordinands of their viewpoint. They were told by one senior member, the Rev David Holloway, vicar of Jesmond, that the church was a dysfunctional body with incompetent leadership.

In an article to be published in tomorrow's Church of England Newspaper - a more broadly-based evangelical publication - Dr Turnbull's message appears rather more tolerant. He writes: "For me and for Wycliffe, inclusive means exactly that, rather than the exclusion of particular views. So issues which divide ... have to be debated in the open, albeit with care and sensitivity ..."

Dr Turnbull was not available for comment last night.

[Well, if 95% of us Brits are going to Hell at least I won’t be lonely. Most of my friends will be there – actually thinking about Dr Turnbull’s criteria for entry into Heaven all of my friends will be there – and there will be an eternity to get to know the rest of the countries almost entire population….. Fools like this really give Christianity a bad name.]

7 comments:

Laura said...

Hey... at least you know who's gonna have the really bitchin party in the afterlife then... all the fun people are going to the same place ;)

dbackdad said...

I thought we were the only ones that had kooks like that.

Sign me up for hell if heaven's going to be populated with people like Turnbull.

Juggling Mother said...

see, now it really baffles me why he thinks I'm remotely bothered by the liklihood that I will go to hell. It's rather like me telling him that if he can't say nice things the needle monster will come and sew his lips shut. As he doesn't believe in the needle monster (I assume - I've just made him up), he is not going to care, and certainly not going to change his way of thinking/living.

I have no idea how mny times I've been told I'm going to hell (or by how many religions, which is quite funny) because it barely even registers in my brain as sounds, never mind meaning!

Yulacu said...

It's odd that his idea of eternal bliss presumably wont include some of his friends and family members. I doubt that all of his friends and family are in that 5% he claims that are going to heaven. Will God just wipe away all memory of his loved ones that he wont see again? Will he remember them and just not care? Hmmm....

I've always found hell to be a problematic theological idea, but this guy just took it to a new level.

OldLady Of The Hills said...

I so agree, dear CK....And I will be there in Hell with you and ALL the other wonderful people who this guy has condemned...!

Thanks for your visit, my dear, I hope sometime you get over here and can see the garden, in person, and me in person, too!

CyberKitten said...

laura said: Hey... at least you know who's gonna have the really bitchin party in the afterlife then... all the fun people are going to the same place.

Going to be heck of a pig roast! Hope that they have a separate veggie BBQ set up [grin].

dbackdad said: I thought we were the only ones that had kooks like that.

Unfortunately such foolishness is not restricted by national boundaries.

JM said: see, now it really baffles me why he thinks I'm remotely bothered by the liklihood that I will go to hell.

It's their mind set I'm afraid. B ecause they (apparently) believe all that guff they fully expect that the rest of us believe it too (in our secret heart of hearts) so that when they spout this nonesense they fully expect that the rest of the sheeple will beg them for forgiveness. They probably can't conceive of the thought that we're laughing at them because they're acting like idiots.

alpha said: I doubt that all of his friends and family are in that 5% he claims that are going to heaven. Will God just wipe away all memory of his loved ones that he wont see again? Will he remember them and just not care?

Good point. If God manipulates our memories that way than we're no longer the people who went to Heaven in the first place. If He doesn't mess with our minds then how can it be Heaven knowing that our loved ones are suffering in Hell?

alpha said: I've always found hell to be a problematic theological idea, but this guy just took it to a new level.

He *is* a piece of work isn't he?

Naomi said: I so agree, dear CK....And I will be there in Hell with you and ALL the other wonderful people who this guy has condemned...!

Looking forward to meeting up with you for *very* long chats! - If I don't meet up with you in this life first that is [grin].

Skywolf said...

Ugh. What an arrogant git. People like him make me embarrassed to be a member of the same race. *rolls eyes*