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I have a burning need to know stuff and I love asking awkward questions.

Saturday, July 30, 2022

A Classic, by any other name...... 

I was having an interesting chat with Marianne from ‘Let’s Read’ about Classics recently and it got me pondering. What *is* a Classic? Is it something we’re simply told is a Classic by some intelligentsia super-group? Does the public get a vote? Is it simply a collection of books that have ‘stood the test of time’? If so, how long? 100 years? What about so-called ‘modern Classics’ from the 20th century? Can something become an ‘instant Classic’ or is that just a classic misnomer/contradiction in terms? Are, for example, the Harry Potter books Classics, or will they be in 50- or 100-years if people are still reading them? Do Classics have to have been popular at some point in their history, or is it a case of critical acclaim and saying something profound about the ‘human condition’? Can something be hailed as a Classic, then fall out of favour and stop being one? I understand that novels like ‘The Great Gatsby’ had been dismissed on publication but became Classics decades later – sometimes only after the authors death. Is everything produced by a ‘Classic author’ automatically a Classic or can they write/publish non-Classics too? Thankfully, I didn’t overthink the issue TOO much..... But it DID get me thinking about modern Classics. For instance, how modern is too modern? I think limiting it to 100 years (so, presently pre-1922) is a bit harsh. Obviously, something like 10 years is (I think) far too recent. I think a good compromise figure is 50 years – so before 1972. That feels reasonable and ticks at least some of the longevity boxes. So, what modern Classics have I read – since starting this Blog – and are they *really’ Classics? Let’s see, in review order.... 

1984 by George Orwell (1949) 

The Shape of Things to Come by H G Wells (1933) 

The Fall by Albert Camus (1957) 

The Shockwave Rider by John Brunner (1975) 

The Great Airship by Captain F S Brereton (1914) 

The Secret Agent by Joseph Conrad (1907) 

Kipps by H G Wells (1905) 

The Cider House Rules by John Irving (1985) 

The Murder at the Vicarage by Agatha Christie (1930) 

Mystery in White – A Christmas Crime Story by J Jefferson Farjeon (1937) 

Alone in Berlin by Hans Fallada (1947) 

Under Fire by Henri Barbusse (1916) 

Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell (1938) 

The Thirteen Problems by Agatha Christie (1932) 

Rogue Male by Geoffrey Household (1939) 

Get Carter by Ted Lewis (1970) 

The Desperate Hours by Joseph Hayes (1954) 

Testament of Youth by Vera Brittain (1933) 

Wind, Sand and Stars by Antoine de Saint-Exupery (1939) 

Down and Out in Paris and London by George Orwell (1933) 

Riders of the Purple Sage by Zane Grey (1912) 

The Voyage Out by Virginia Woolf (1915) 

The Great Gatsby by F Scott Fitzgerald (1926) 

Steppenwolf by Hermann Hesse (1927) 

Lady Chatterley’s Lover by D H Lawrence (1928) 

To Have and Have Not by Ernest Hemingway (1937) 

The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck (1939) 

The Body in the Library by Agatha Christie (1942) 

Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison (1952) 

Silent Spring by Rachel Carson (1962) 

The Female Eunuch by Germaine Greer (1970) 

The Traitor by Sydney Horler (1936) 

Goodbye to All That by Robert Graves (1929) 

The Plague by Albert Camus (1947) 

It Can’t Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis (1935) 

One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest by Ken Kessey (1962) 

To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee (1960) 

Our Man in Havana by Graham Greene (1958) 

Dune by Frank Herbert (1965) 

The Moving Finger by Agatha Christie (1943) 

The New Machiavelli by H G Wells (1911) 

A Town Like Alice by Nevil Shute (1950) 

The Wretched of the Earth by Franz Fanon (1961) 

A Murder is Announced by Agatha Christie (1950) 

Charlie and the Chocolate Factory by Roald Dahl (1964) 

Well, that was a MUCH longer list than I’d been expecting. I think *most* of them happily fit into Classic territory, although two broke my 50 year ‘rule’ and a few made the cut because they're by Classic authors rather than Classics in their own right (IMO). Thoughts? 

7 comments:

James said...

I was a member of a local library "Classics" reading group for a while and we used the same 50 year criteria that you settled on. Looking at your list, I've read about a third of the books and would generally consider them classics. However, much as I enjoy authors like John Brunner and Nevil Shute I find it difficult to put them in the same class as Joseph Conrad and George Orwell.

Hannah @ Among Stories said...

This is interesting to think about. In general we're told what classics are, whether they resonate with us as readers or not. That said, I feel like subjectively we can also feel that something is a classic, even if it doesn't meet with literary critique standards.... if that makes sense. This is probably one of those topics where five different people will provide seven different opinions though.
I do think it's hard to call something a classic after say 10 years, but I also think that generationally our views evolve more often than every 50 years so maybe we have more leeway in what we consider a modern classic.
The potential for overthinking this is great, lol.

Helen said...

They are interesting questions! For the purposes of my Classics Club lists on my own blog, I tend not to worry about it too much - I include lesser-known books by classic authors, vintage crime, 'forgotten classics' that publishers have brought back into print...anything that I'm happy to consider a classic, even if not everyone else would. I don't think there is any right or wrong answer. As for your list, most of those definitely sound like classics to me!

Marianne said...

I think we all have the same problem as Kitten and I discussed on my post Top Books I Will Never Read. I absolutely love classics and always say, you can't go wrong with something that has been loved by so many people for such a long time but I've been taught again and again that you can.

I also think the term "classic" means something else to different people, especially according to the age of the person. For a little child, a twenty year old is "OLD", for a fifty year old not so much. I guess the same goes for books.

But all in all, I think we agree, that "modern" classics can be fifty years or older though I had to adjust there, I would always say, they have to be written before I was born which means, there are fewer books that would go on my list than on those of others.

From your list, I have only read seven but there are 27 books where I read something else by that author.

I usually mark anything classic that is by a classic author even though that book is not as well-known as others. But in reality, we probably shouldn't. Not every book by every author is the same.

In any case, a great discussion here. I'm looking forward to more comments.

CyberKitten said...

@ James: I think the issue with much SF (after the Classic Age of Wells & Verne) is that although it did sometimes reach great heights within the genre few of the works were examples of Classic Literature. 1984 certainly makes the cut as do things like Brave New World. I can certainly see the Sprawl set of William Gibson novels *becoming* full on Classics in time. The Brunner example in this list was at least partially because it said it was a Classic on the cover [grin]. I think it's arguable that Shute wasn't a Classic *author* but I think he did produce a handful of Classics. I certainly rank 'Alice' as one of them.

@ Hannah: 'Classic' is pretty hard to define because, as you say, there's both 'objective' and subjective elements to it. Again, as you say, opinions are divided (to say the least) on which books make the cut as Classics. There's the core Classics (I always go back to people like Dickens here) which almost everyone agrees on - at least in the West! - but gets interesting when you get to the edges of things. Defining what IS and especially what ISN'T a Classic is fun for all the family - until someone throws the first punch! Most definitely FULL of overthinking potential. Agree on the generational thing. I'm sure many kids of today would dismiss a good chunk of the core books as boring works by dead white guys.....

CyberKitten said...

@ Helen: I do like asking interesting questions. I like interesting answers too! Mostly I go with what people have already decided. If it says 'Classic' anywhere on the cover it's a Classic! I'm not really in the position to dispute it [grin]. I try to be as fair and as inclusive as possible, even if I sometimes might overstep the boundary (if one exists) from time to time.

@ Marianne: Definitely Classics can exist in the eye of the holder. Mostly I just play it safe and go with what the experts say [grin] Agree that Classic authors can produce work that shouldn't be considered a Classic - and wouldn't be if their name wasn't on it. Classics do need time to stew though. At least 50 years seems about right.... Probably. 100 and you're pretty sure!

Marianne said...

Definitely. If one generation likes it and the next doesn't even kono what they are talking about, it's not going to be a classic. Harry Potter might be called a classic one day, I'm pretty sure it will but I wouldn't call it a classic right now. It was published even after my children were born.