When I was *very* much younger I used to argue/debate faith/religion with Christians - mostly @ Uni. It wasn't that I was one of those crass Atheists who used to annoy people of faith because they were 'wrong' is that I liked debate and was up for understanding what people believed. I hardly ever started on the topic but entered into it when a believer asked. They even framed it as a 'debate'. I *very* quickly learnt it was nothing of the kind.
I think that some of them honestly wanted to know/understand why I didn't believe as they did. But *their* belief was most definitely not up for debate. I never found a single one who thought for a moment that their belief was debatable.
Now, personally I'm happy having my beliefs challenged - in a polite discussion. I'm open to the idea that I might be wrong. I hope that if I'm presented with good argument & new (valid) information then I'll change my mind on *any* subject. Although I'm confident/very confident about some things, there's *always* an element of doubt. Even in my most arrogant phase I'd never say that I knew *everything* about a topic. So of course I could be wrong or misinformed about things - even important things.
But when I started trying to drill down into the beliefs of others I *very* quickly learnt that a) there was a VERY strong emotional component to a persons belief structure and b) that personal belief cannot be questioned by reason or logic or facts. Go down deep enough and there's no foundation to stand on - and that REALLY scares people.
So, much as I enjoyed the idea of debating beliefs I've learnt that the effort and the risk are just not worth it!
Any strong believer thinks their belief is the only acceptable one and they want to converse all the others because they "want to save them". I have met lots of people like that. You just cannot discuss with them. Just as you cannot discuss with people who have a strong extreme political opinion.
Yes, indeed! Several people have tried to 'save' me.... They gave up after a while [grin].
I'm one of those people who can 'entertain' an idea without believing it. I can hold it in my mind, take it apart, see how it works (or doesn't) and put it back together again - or, sometimes, 'fix' it. I've had *decades* of training in school, college & University to do that sort of thing. From personal experience I don't think that many people (or certainly not enough people) have those skills. They should really be much more common.
I have to try really hard to just not bother anymore. It's painful to let people continue to be wrong with no basis, but I have to protect my own peace!
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One of the problems of being smart ... We talked about that the other day.
When I was *very* much younger I used to argue/debate faith/religion with Christians - mostly @ Uni. It wasn't that I was one of those crass Atheists who used to annoy people of faith because they were 'wrong' is that I liked debate and was up for understanding what people believed. I hardly ever started on the topic but entered into it when a believer asked. They even framed it as a 'debate'. I *very* quickly learnt it was nothing of the kind.
I think that some of them honestly wanted to know/understand why I didn't believe as they did. But *their* belief was most definitely not up for debate. I never found a single one who thought for a moment that their belief was debatable.
Now, personally I'm happy having my beliefs challenged - in a polite discussion. I'm open to the idea that I might be wrong. I hope that if I'm presented with good argument & new (valid) information then I'll change my mind on *any* subject. Although I'm confident/very confident about some things, there's *always* an element of doubt. Even in my most arrogant phase I'd never say that I knew *everything* about a topic. So of course I could be wrong or misinformed about things - even important things.
But when I started trying to drill down into the beliefs of others I *very* quickly learnt that a) there was a VERY strong emotional component to a persons belief structure and b) that personal belief cannot be questioned by reason or logic or facts. Go down deep enough and there's no foundation to stand on - and that REALLY scares people.
So, much as I enjoyed the idea of debating beliefs I've learnt that the effort and the risk are just not worth it!
Any strong believer thinks their belief is the only acceptable one and they want to converse all the others because they "want to save them". I have met lots of people like that. You just cannot discuss with them. Just as you cannot discuss with people who have a strong extreme political opinion.
Yes, indeed! Several people have tried to 'save' me.... They gave up after a while [grin].
I'm one of those people who can 'entertain' an idea without believing it. I can hold it in my mind, take it apart, see how it works (or doesn't) and put it back together again - or, sometimes, 'fix' it. I've had *decades* of training in school, college & University to do that sort of thing. From personal experience I don't think that many people (or certainly not enough people) have those skills. They should really be much more common.
Oh, those people. They believe their religion is the only true one. And the next one does, as well. So, who tells us who is right?
I have to try really hard to just not bother anymore. It's painful to let people continue to be wrong with no basis, but I have to protect my own peace!
That's a good position to have.
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