All hell breaks out as pagans given go-ahead for university gathering
From Scotland on Sunday
Sun 27 May 2007
SOME would call it the Devil's work. Two ancient religions have locked horns in a bizarre "freedom of speech" row that is echoing around the corridors of one of Scotland's oldest academic institutions. The University of Edinburgh has granted permission to the Pagan Society to hold its annual conference - involving talks on witchcraft, pagan weddings and tribal dancing - on campus next month. Druids, heathens, shamans and witches are expected to attend what is a major event in the pagan calendar. But the move has enraged the Christian Union, which accuses the university of double standards after banning one of its events on the "dangers" of homosexuality.
Matthew Tindale, an Edinburgh-based Christian Union staff worker, claimed some
faiths and beliefs appeared to be more equal than others on campus. "This seems to be a clear case of discrimination," he said. "It's okay for other religions, such as the pagans, to have their say at the university, but there appears to be a reluctance to allow Christians to do the same. All we are asking for is the tolerance that is afforded to other faiths and organisations." The Union has won strong backing from the Catholic Church in Scotland, whose spokesman, Simon Dames, felt that allowing the pagan festival to go ahead while barring the Union meeting was an example of "Christianphobia". "This appears to be a clear case of double standards," he said. "The principles of a pluralistic democracy revolve around an acceptance of competing ideas and universities should be enshrining this principle. Anti-racism groups would never be asked to put up posters saying there are alternative views." The row has its roots in last year's decision by university officials to ban the Christian Union from using campus premises to run a course which claimed that gay sex was morally wrong.
The course was deemed to be in breach of university anti-discrimination guidelines although a compromise measure was later offered to allow the course to take place if posters offering differing views were prominently displayed. Much to the displeasure of some campus Christians and the Catholic Church, no such conditions will be attached to the pagan gathering. But the pagans point out that, unlike the Christian Union, their followers fully support the university's equality policies and condemn homophobic attitudes as "deplorable". John Macintyre, presiding officer of the Pagan Federation Scotland, stressed that his faith was based on tolerance and backed the university for opposing "hurtful" discriminatory behaviour. "Pagans, as a rule, don't believe that sexist or homophobic views are acceptable and discrimination on that basis is deplorable," he said.
The conference will feature a range of talks, including Magic and Witchcraft in the 21st Century, Pagan Parenting, Pagan Marriage and Pagan Symbolism and Practice. Taking place at the Edinburgh University Students' Association premises, it will also feature a talk on Ancient Greek magic, a tribal dance workshop and a performance by the Glasgow Labyrinth Theatre Company as well as poetry from "Notorious Mad Mick" and rituals by the Akasha Group. Macintyre said: "It will be an opportunity for people to listen to talks on various aspects of modern paganism and socialise with like-minded people in a relaxed, tolerant atmosphere.
"Most people now recognise that the old stereotypes about witches and witchcraft are way off the mark and there is nothing remotely sinister about it." The pagans are not the only organisation to take issue with the Union over its course, which deals with the Bible's attitude to sex and relationships. It has also been condemned by the Edinburgh University Student Association and Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Scotland. Tim Goodwin, EUSA president and himself a Christian, said: "We are strictly opposed to the course. It is essentially homophobic and we have a policy that condemns the course itself." A University of Edinburgh spokesman said: "The University's offer of accommodation - with certain conditions - stands. We strongly defend the right to free speech and freedom of conscience."
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8 comments:
The Christians are free to hate, discriminate and condemn from the pulpit in their churches, as long as they don't incite others to violence, as for them being on campus, as much as I don't like their message, I think they should be allowed to state, this is what our religious beliefs are and why. We let the KKK have public marches here even though the majority of people disagree with their message. I think the Christians should be allowed free speech and let people disagree with them. If they want to have a conference on the dangers and evils of homosexuality, another group should also be allowed to hold a conference on the dangers and evils of organized religion. :-)
I hate to say it, but I kind of agree with the Christian group on this one. Why should their event have been cancelled? people are free to not attend if they choose, or free to protest... If academic institutions are truly there to promote thought rather than protect their own silos of intellectual moral high ground, then open debate should be truly open.
Now, if the christian group denied access to someone who wanted to debate and openly disagree (in a respectful and non-disruptive fashion), then that'd be another story.
I went to a catholic university (though I use 'catholic' very loosely as DePaul was more the social justice catholicism than the dogmatic catholicism) and we had a pagan student group. I remember once we had a religious symposium and all the faith-based groups were invited, and only the pagans and catholics showed up.
V.V. and Laura, you're both dismissing the common thread. The policy of the university is not to allow any form of "hate speech" programs to be held on their campus. If you are holding convention on the evils of being gay, you are talking about people that YOU think need to change THEIR ways. If you're holding a convention for Christians to talk about Christ or Pagans (etc) to talk about their religion, in both cases, you're talking about how people within your group can learn more about your group.
I'd bet that the University of Edinburgh has an "outsider free speech area" specifically designated so that people from the outside can come in and say whatever is on their mind. This would be much smaller than the areas they would allow for people to come and set up booths and whatnot--just a 10m x 10m square or such. I bet they probably require "scheduling" and enough other red tape so that outsiders won't realize they haven't done the paper work, this for the purpose of kicking them out if they raise a ruckus. That's the way it was on both of the universities I attended.
If you're going to raise a ruckus and get people mad, the university has a legitimate interest in requiring you to schedule your appearance, to limit it to a designated area, and to limit the amount of time that you are allowed to use that facility. They might perceive a need to have security in attendance and might ask you to post bond if you are talking about a subject that might be seen as incitement to riot.
Even a state-funded university is allowed some discretion as to who uses which facility, particularly when the grounds for judgment are set out in paper to apply equally to all. This means that a group coming to complain about religious people's oppression of the godless would be on the borderline. A "if you are not godless, you are brainless" convention would be out of bounds for easy access to facilities, but could probably take place in the "outsider's free speech" designated area. A convention on the "Philosophy of Agnosticism and Atheism" would clearly fit their requirements.
Isn't that pretty reasonable? Doesn't that sound more like what was going on?
Ken: I get that. I also think that ALL religion is a socially acceptable way to point out why "we" have it right and how "others" need to change their evil ways. So let's ban all religion!
I am against the notion of the course on homosexuality - because it would be propaganda and not a learning experience about differing views. Plus as a course it would have to be officially accredited by the university.
However, if these christians believe that homosexuality is immoral, then discussing their beliefs would result in hate speech. So where do you draw the line? I'd much rather say "sure, have your event" and let a debate ensue than to simply stifle discussion altogether.
Bah. I am a pompous ass who needs to learn to read more carefully before shooting off his mouth. And yes, I mixed that on purpose.
There is always a problem when the individual freedom of speech of two opposing groups clash.
I have no problem at all with the idea that people can think or believe whatever they like (no matter how crazy) as long as it stays in their respective heads. What I think we should all be concerned with is what happens when these ideas are spoken about in a public place or acted upon. It is then that various beliefs must be considered within the public domain and viewed accordingly.
The Christian group mentioned in the article has every right to believe that homosexuality is (in their mind) an evil practice. They are wrong - but they have every right to believe it. I contend that they even have a right to make thier views know to others who do not adhere to their beliefs - as long as counter arguments can be presented in an open forum. After all the best way to show that an idea is false (or true) is by debating the issue.
What Edinburgh University is *not* obligated to do is to allow such a debate on their own premises. This is not a suppression of free speech.
Likewise the University shows no 'double-standards' by allowing their Pagan Society to hold their annual conference there. The Christian Union may object for ideological reasons - as it has every right to do - but the University is still very much in its rights to allow one event and not allow the other.
It appears that, with tedious regularity, the Christian Union are playing the 'oppresion' card in a rather cynical attempt to publicise their views on an aspect of human sexuality. I for one am glad that Edinburgh had a balls to stand up to them.
Oh Lord! Why don't they all just shut up---take an enema and get rid of all their animous and then HUG each other! Enough of these dogmatic A**Holes! (Sorry dear CK, this stuff just drives me up the wall, to say the least! WHERE IS THE HUMANITY in all this crap?) OY!
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