I don't know what to think about this conflict, to be honest. I don't trust the media at all, but I don't want my prejudice against them to prevent me from seeing the truth. I don't regard the Zelensky government as legitimate given what happened in 2014, and I'm aware that Ukraine has been used by the military-industrial complex in the west to continually threaten Russia. I can see where Putin is coming from in wanting to get rid of a threat at his throat. I'm sorry that the people of the Ukraine are the ones who have to suffer because of the battle of arrogance between DC/Brussels and Putin. I'm also a little surprised by how un-skeptical people are of the narrative: didn't we all live through the war on terror and the "WMDs" in Iraq?
Well, it seems pretty straight forward to me. Ukraine was essentially minding its own business and going its own way as an independent state and it was attacked without provocation by its neighbour to the East. Russia *might* feel threatened by Ukraine's ambitions to be much more western leaning than eastern leaning but that's no excuse to roll tanks across its borders. I struggle with cutting Putin any slack here - never mind actually *praising* him as I've seen some American's do!
It's true that I don't dismiss 'mainstream media' as much as you do, but I've been watching news reports from multiple sources which seem to line up with what's apparently happening on the ground. I don't understand how Ukraine is any more threat to Russia than Poland or the Baltic states. I just don't see the threat or certainly not enough threat to start a war over.
JFK wouldn't stand for Soviet military expansion in Cuba. Why on Earth would Putin tolerate Ukraine being weaponized by DC? His attack against the Ukrainian people is unjustified, but DC's long arrogance has played no small part in creating this scenario. It's a situation a bit like cop culture in the United States. We create a hypermilitarized, hyperaggressive police force and we are surprised when their boneheaded tactics provoke defensive behavior from civilians that gets innocent people killed. Play stupid games, get stupid prizes.
Erm... I think that there's a *world* of difference between nuclear tipped IRBM's on Cuba and giving the Ukrainian army anti-tank & anti-aircraft weapons. They're certainly not equivalent! I don't think you can blame Washington for the fact that *Russian* tanks crossed Ukraine's borders 5 days ago. That's on Russia don't you think? The Russian invasion of Ukraine is NOT in any way defensive. The Ukrainians are zero threat to Russia. How can they be a credible threat even if they had the mind to be - which apparently they don't?
Putin is responsible for invading Ukraine, not DC. My personal judgment is that DC created the conditions that made Putin see a threat in Ukraine, but I don't expect it to learn from this debacle or any other. For nearly century DC has been playing world policeman and creating more disorder through its hubris.
Well, we can definitely agree on US foreign policy actively destabilising parts of the world in the last 100 years for its own reasons/benefits. Of course we did it too when we had the power to do so..
Putin’s personal fantasy is rebuilding the Soviet/Russian empire. It’s not happening willingly when all these former Soviet controlled countries don’t want to go back. So he has to use force, threats, assassinations, puppet politicians, bribery, and/or invasion. Ukraine is not now, nor has it ever been a military threat to Russia. Just look at the history between the two countries, the Crimean Wars (1853, 1854, 2014), the Holodormor (1932-33), etc. Ukrainians have never been treated well by Russians. They have everything to fear. Also, the Russians are committing war crimes. They have started an unprovoked war and targeted civilians. Look at enough news sources and citizen reporters on the ground, and you’ll see the truth of the matter. I have traveled in former Soviet block countries and spoken to people about their experiences. None have seen the Russians as the good guys. Also, look at the military might and weapons of both countries. There are enough reliable sources out there to show it’s a David vs Goliath situation and Ukraine is definitely the little guy in that equation. If Putin is feeling threatened, it’s not by western weapons helping Ukrainians resist, it’s by Russia becoming further isolated as a country, economic, political system that doesn’t work for most people and these former Soviet states understand they are a lot better off when they’re not under a Russian yoke.
@ V V: Agreed. The sooner this fiasco is over the better so Ukraine can rebuild and join the EU/NATO so it doesn't have to go through this shit again. The Russian attack has been a MASSIVE miscalculation on Putin's part.
My heart absolute breaks for the people of Ukraine. Putin wants to re-create the Soviet Union and is willing to do anything he can to get his way. I pray Ukraine will get the support she needs to remain a sovereign nation. Really, if Russia takes Ukraine, I am willing to bet he won't stop there.
@ Sarah: Putin might very well be able to 'take' a large chunk of Ukraine but he'll never be able to hold it. Unfortunately the local population will need to suffer before they can throw him back out again. But the Russian attack was a HUGE mistake. Putin will pay dearly for it.
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I don't know what to think about this conflict, to be honest. I don't trust the media at all, but I don't want my prejudice against them to prevent me from seeing the truth. I don't regard the Zelensky government as legitimate given what happened in 2014, and I'm aware that Ukraine has been used by the military-industrial complex in the west to continually threaten Russia. I can see where Putin is coming from in wanting to get rid of a threat at his throat. I'm sorry that the people of the Ukraine are the ones who have to suffer because of the battle of arrogance between DC/Brussels and Putin. I'm also a little surprised by how un-skeptical people are of the narrative: didn't we all live through the war on terror and the "WMDs" in Iraq?
Well, it seems pretty straight forward to me. Ukraine was essentially minding its own business and going its own way as an independent state and it was attacked without provocation by its neighbour to the East. Russia *might* feel threatened by Ukraine's ambitions to be much more western leaning than eastern leaning but that's no excuse to roll tanks across its borders. I struggle with cutting Putin any slack here - never mind actually *praising* him as I've seen some American's do!
It's true that I don't dismiss 'mainstream media' as much as you do, but I've been watching news reports from multiple sources which seem to line up with what's apparently happening on the ground. I don't understand how Ukraine is any more threat to Russia than Poland or the Baltic states. I just don't see the threat or certainly not enough threat to start a war over.
JFK wouldn't stand for Soviet military expansion in Cuba. Why on Earth would Putin tolerate Ukraine being weaponized by DC? His attack against the Ukrainian people is unjustified, but DC's long arrogance has played no small part in creating this scenario. It's a situation a bit like cop culture in the United States. We create a hypermilitarized, hyperaggressive police force and we are surprised when their boneheaded tactics provoke defensive behavior from civilians that gets innocent people killed. Play stupid games, get stupid prizes.
Erm... I think that there's a *world* of difference between nuclear tipped IRBM's on Cuba and giving the Ukrainian army anti-tank & anti-aircraft weapons. They're certainly not equivalent! I don't think you can blame Washington for the fact that *Russian* tanks crossed Ukraine's borders 5 days ago. That's on Russia don't you think? The Russian invasion of Ukraine is NOT in any way defensive. The Ukrainians are zero threat to Russia. How can they be a credible threat even if they had the mind to be - which apparently they don't?
Putin is responsible for invading Ukraine, not DC. My personal judgment is that DC created the conditions that made Putin see a threat in Ukraine, but I don't expect it to learn from this debacle or any other. For nearly century DC has been playing world policeman and creating more disorder through its hubris.
Well, we can definitely agree on US foreign policy actively destabilising parts of the world in the last 100 years for its own reasons/benefits. Of course we did it too when we had the power to do so..
Putin’s personal fantasy is rebuilding the Soviet/Russian empire. It’s not happening willingly when all these former Soviet controlled countries don’t want to go back. So he has to use force, threats, assassinations, puppet politicians, bribery, and/or invasion. Ukraine is not now, nor has it ever been a military threat to Russia. Just look at the history between the two countries, the Crimean Wars (1853, 1854, 2014), the Holodormor (1932-33), etc. Ukrainians have never been treated well by Russians. They have everything to fear. Also, the Russians are committing war crimes. They have started an unprovoked war and targeted civilians. Look at enough news sources and citizen reporters on the ground, and you’ll see the truth of the matter. I have traveled in former Soviet block countries and spoken to people about their experiences. None have seen the Russians as the good guys. Also, look at the military might and weapons of both countries. There are enough reliable sources out there to show it’s a David vs Goliath situation and Ukraine is definitely the little guy in that equation. If Putin is feeling threatened, it’s not by western weapons helping Ukrainians resist, it’s by Russia becoming further isolated as a country, economic, political system that doesn’t work for most people and these former Soviet states understand they are a lot better off when they’re not under a Russian yoke.
@ V V: Agreed. The sooner this fiasco is over the better so Ukraine can rebuild and join the EU/NATO so it doesn't have to go through this shit again. The Russian attack has been a MASSIVE miscalculation on Putin's part.
My heart absolute breaks for the people of Ukraine. Putin wants to re-create the Soviet Union and is willing to do anything he can to get his way. I pray Ukraine will get the support she needs to remain a sovereign nation. Really, if Russia takes Ukraine, I am willing to bet he won't stop there.
@ Sarah: Putin might very well be able to 'take' a large chunk of Ukraine but he'll never be able to hold it. Unfortunately the local population will need to suffer before they can throw him back out again. But the Russian attack was a HUGE mistake. Putin will pay dearly for it.
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