I recently learned while listening to TROY that Agamemnon getting murdered by his wife in the tub was a bit of a tragic misunderstanding...she was doing it because he'd unwillingly "sacrificed" their daughter to Artemis to make up shooting a stag on her land, but Artemis was evidently more interested in seeing his willingness than the slaughter itself; she zapped a stag into the girl's place, and the girl herself was zapped to some island to serve as a priestess. Made me think of the Hebrew story about Abraham being willing to sacrifice HIS son, only for a ram to be supplied at the last minute. (Only, Agamemnon was only willing to sacrifice his daughter because literally everyone but his wife was telling him "If you don't do it, bro, then we've created this huge fleet to sail to Troy for absolutely no reason and we're all going to look ridiculous").
I have to wonder if the real Greeks had family stories as messed up as the House of Atreus...
What I've read of his death, Agamemnon pretty much deserved it. Although, as always, with the Gods involved manipulating people for their own twisted 'amusement' its sometimes hard to tell!
It's 'odd' how earlier ancient stories show up in the Bible in 'new' retellings... Its almost as if they were copy/pasted into the narrative for some reason....
Mythic Greek family dynamics are WEIRD. No wonder Freud & Co used them to 'explain' how messed up humans are/can be!
They're rather different stories with a re-used trope, but that's the reason they're tropes. If Hebrew stories re-used anything it would have been more Babylonian elements, like the Flood, but then again if that area of the world was flooded by something, different cultures writing their versions of it would hardly be stealing simply because they were witnessing the same event!
What I'm finding out from listening to Troy is that most characters are rather rotten....I already despised Paris, but now I've learned he took advantage of a funeral to not only kidnap Helen, but to loot Sparta, then went home the long way (by way of Egypt) and did some looting and killing along the way, apparently just for funsies.
Aren't there supposed to only be 7 stories? If so, I can see why they get re-used, updated or sprinkled with new elements. It's HARD being original about anything. Plus re-told stories tend to resonate with a larger & wider audience or have probably heard something similar before.
Oh, Paris was definitely not a good guy! Achilles wasn't a whole lot better. The hero, apparently, of the Iliad was Hector - just a normal guy trying to do the right thing under impossible conditions. I do have an OLD copy somewhere, I should really get to reading it!
Fry doesn't restrict himself to the Illiad proper; he's bringing other Greek stories (and, apparently, Shakespeare) that tie-in to the events, the way he told part of The Aeneid as part of the Odyessey.
Apparently its around 10-40cm because of the restriction of the Straights of Gibraltar, so there's NO way [SPOLIERS] [SPOILERS] that anyone could have drowned in the horse left on the beach..................
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I recently learned while listening to TROY that Agamemnon getting murdered by his wife in the tub was a bit of a tragic misunderstanding...she was doing it because he'd unwillingly "sacrificed" their daughter to Artemis to make up shooting a stag on her land, but Artemis was evidently more interested in seeing his willingness than the slaughter itself; she zapped a stag into the girl's place, and the girl herself was zapped to some island to serve as a priestess. Made me think of the Hebrew story about Abraham being willing to sacrifice HIS son, only for a ram to be supplied at the last minute. (Only, Agamemnon was only willing to sacrifice his daughter because literally everyone but his wife was telling him "If you don't do it, bro, then we've created this huge fleet to sail to Troy for absolutely no reason and we're all going to look ridiculous").
I have to wonder if the real Greeks had family stories as messed up as the House of Atreus...
What I've read of his death, Agamemnon pretty much deserved it. Although, as always, with the Gods involved manipulating people for their own twisted 'amusement' its sometimes hard to tell!
It's 'odd' how earlier ancient stories show up in the Bible in 'new' retellings... Its almost as if they were copy/pasted into the narrative for some reason....
Mythic Greek family dynamics are WEIRD. No wonder Freud & Co used them to 'explain' how messed up humans are/can be!
They're rather different stories with a re-used trope, but that's the reason they're tropes. If Hebrew stories re-used anything it would have been more Babylonian elements, like the Flood, but then again if that area of the world was flooded by something, different cultures writing their versions of it would hardly be stealing simply because they were witnessing the same event!
What I'm finding out from listening to Troy is that most characters are rather rotten....I already despised Paris, but now I've learned he took advantage of a funeral to not only kidnap Helen, but to loot Sparta, then went home the long way (by way of Egypt) and did some looting and killing along the way, apparently just for funsies.
Aren't there supposed to only be 7 stories? If so, I can see why they get re-used, updated or sprinkled with new elements. It's HARD being original about anything. Plus re-told stories tend to resonate with a larger & wider audience or have probably heard something similar before.
Oh, Paris was definitely not a good guy! Achilles wasn't a whole lot better. The hero, apparently, of the Iliad was Hector - just a normal guy trying to do the right thing under impossible conditions. I do have an OLD copy somewhere, I should really get to reading it!
Fry doesn't restrict himself to the Illiad proper; he's bringing other Greek stories (and, apparently, Shakespeare) that tie-in to the events, the way he told part of The Aeneid as part of the Odyessey.
If you're 'locking in' I can certainly recommend 'Odysseus – The Oath' by Valerio Massimo Manfredi for another perspective.
Thanks!
It's the first book in a duology. I haven't read the 2nd book yet....
Odysseus
1. The Oath (2013)
2. The Return (2014)
I can't even with these people.
The funniest problem with the movie I've heard so far is that they got the tidal range of the Mediterranean wrong... [lol]
What?! I had not heard that one yet. Oi.
Apparently its around 10-40cm because of the restriction of the Straights of Gibraltar, so there's NO way [SPOLIERS] [SPOILERS] that anyone could have drowned in the horse left on the beach..................
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