About Me

My photo
I have a burning need to know stuff and I love asking awkward questions.

Thursday, November 08, 2007

Crying 'discrimination' harms churches message

From Ekklesia

Monday 19 March 2007

The UK Christian think-tank Ekklesia has said that “retreating into a persecution mentality” is unhelpful – and harms the churches’ message. The comment came in response to a new BBC survey which shows that up to a third of UK Christians feel they are discriminated against in public life because of their faith.

Ekklesia’s Jonathan Bartley, whose 2006 book Faith and Politics After Christendom first warned of a “negative” response among sections of the church to their gradual loss of official status, commented: “Some Christians do feel discriminated against, but Christians are also privileged – with 26 bishops in the house of Lords, an established church, tax breaks and blasphemy laws protecting them, for example.” He added: “Others will point out that Christians discriminate themselves. Many state-funded schools run by churches are selecting on the basis of people's faith. Churches have claimed opt-outs from equalities legislation. And their treatment of lesbian and gay people is seen as bigoted by many, inside and outside the churches.”

Bartley said that in a global context where minorities were under attack, and in the UK where some Muslims and Jews in the UK faced attacks and desecration of their cemeteries, talk of “persecution” by some Christian groups was inappropriate. He appeared on BBC1’s Heaven and Earth Show (18 March 2007), which commissioned the survey. “The reason a sizable minority of Christians, especially more conservative ones, are feeling ‘got at’ is because the historic privilege and influence of the churches is being eroded in the public sphere” added Ekklesia co-director Simon Barrow.

“But this demonstrates how easy it has been, during the era of Christendom, for Christians to mistake their own power for the gospel message – which involves Jesus embodying God’s special concern for those at the margins, not demanding special treatment for religion,” he said. Ekklesia argues that loss of automatic privileges, the challenges of pluralism in public life, and the criticism churches face over discrimination in schools and services is “a historic opportunity for them to recover a vision of the Christian message as rooted in justice and equality. Self-interest and trying to grab power back is an unhelpful response – a counter-witness, even.” The think-tank has also warned about the dangers of "the politics of competitive grievance", where Christians, secularists, Muslims and others try to out-do each other with claims of discrimination, rather than finding positive ways of working together.

[What we are seeing, in the main, in the UK and the rest of Europe is not discrimination against Christians but both a reduction in their privileged status and, more importantly, a growing appreciation that their historic privileged status is being eroded. Christians and those of other faiths should be treated for what they are – just another special interest group, one that is in no way more privileged than any other just because of its belief system. Long may the decline in religions “special status” continue.]

8 comments:

Unknown said...

"Christians, secularists, Muslims and others try to out-do each other with claims of discrimination, rather than finding positive ways of working together"

It would be nice wouldn't it - and I know there are good individual and local examples but if the leaders/authorities for each relegion could see to more actual tolerance (rather than just lip service in public) it would allow faith to be debated and shared in a way the rigid opposition structure we currently have couldn't dream of!

wstachour said...

Any discussion of the church losing its hold on society--and an admission that the church has enjoyed a privileged status historically--is a day-brightener for me.

Laura said...

OK... as long as friggin Starbucks has Christmas Blend coffee and holiday crap stocking their shelves in early November, I really don't see ANY decline in the hold Christianity has on society. Period.

In order for a society to be egalitarian - TRULY egalitarian - those who have historically held positions of hegemonic power (whether they acknowledge/realize their own power or not) must LOSE some of that power in order for others to have equal power.

CyberKitten said...

Welcome back rca. Insightful comment as always. We can all hope for more tolerance can't we....

wunelle said: Any discussion of the church losing its hold on society--and an admission that the church has enjoyed a privileged status historically--is a day-brightener for me.

Stay tuned then! [grin].

laura said: I really don't see ANY decline in the hold Christianity has on society. Period.

As in most things I'm afraid that the US appears to be a 'special' case in this regard.

laura said: In order for a society to be egalitarian - TRULY egalitarian - those who have historically held positions of hegemonic power (whether they acknowledge/realize their own power or not) must LOSE some of that power in order for others to have equal power.

Very true. Which is why Christians in Europe may *feel* oppressed - because they are losing the power they historically held . Thankfully. Imagine a world like Europe in the Middle Ages where whole towns were burnt due to heresy. Now imagine such a world with nuclear weapons. Political power and religion are a *very* dangerous mixture. Lets hope (and pray) that such a world never comes to pass again.

sirkolgate said...

Bravo on the article. As a Christian who exists outside the 'church' for the most part I have seen the arrogance directed at me (merely because I am not a ‘stamped’ member of this or that affiliation) and my wife. I think that there’s a lot of comeuppance that’s due people who behave in such a manner.

As to Laura’s comments… Christmas isn’t even really a religious holiday anymore. I personally think that the attitude in this country towards ‘political correctness’ is reaching absurdity. As a child Christmas activities in my school never struck me as decidedly ‘religious’ applications. It was more ‘American’ than religious. Just like Thanksgiving, Halloween, St. Patrick’s Day, and Easter were just one more reason to craft something out of construction paper.

I find it funny that so many people think American’s should just throw away their heritage for the rights of immigrants while no other country tolerates that crap. I think the most powerful argument against this nonsense is the following: “You chose to come here and you can choose to leave.” I can guarantee you that my ancestors hoed a hard row, and they had to learn English, adopt customs they disagreed with, and ‘blend in’. If anything my country is making great strides towards becoming fascist, with the amount of regulation that has to be put in to place just to keep everyone ‘civil’.

What I think is MOST funny is that in our great rush to cater to everyone we’re actually catering to no one. Most of these arguments at their base level (Like Christmas in schools) is a matter the few people involved could have settled respectfully amongst themselves with some ‘reason’. Now the ‘state’ has to step in like a parent and set down hard rules because the ‘kids’ can’t behave and figure it out amongst themselves. Through this whole thing the media demons continue to whip up the more easily excited *looks to Laura’s fiery comment*.

And whatever power you think that religion holds in America CK it’s very pale in comparison to the ‘power’ that you speak of. No Christian is going to be declaring holy war on anyone. Let’s pay more attention to truly ‘religious’ states such as Iran for that.

CyberKitten said...

sirkolgate said: And whatever power you think that religion holds in America CK it’s very pale in comparison to the ‘power’ that you speak of.

Thankfully so. It is easy to imagine what a hardline religious country with Ameria's military might would be capable of.

sirkolgate said: No Christian is going to be declaring holy war on anyone.

Because such an idea is unthinkable for them or because such a capability is beyond them?

sirkolgate said: Let’s pay more attention to truly ‘religious’ states such as Iran for that.

Personally I think that the issue of Iran as well as the so-called 'Clash of Civilisations' has been incredibly overplayed both by those in power (on both sides of the Atlantic) and by the media who delight in manufacturing ever more fantastical sources of fear. We all need to be far more sceptical about things like this before we have yet another war on our hands.

sirkolgate said...

CK with Iran I just said let's pay more attention, not... let's blow them up.

As to my 'No Christian will be declaring war...' it is just like any other statement of similar kind. There's a select group in every faction religion, non-religious, of any political party, that WOULD use deadly force on fellow humans because they've just decided to 'hate' them. My main point is that the 'majority' of Christians won't be declaring any 'holy wars' simply because we're much like everyone else, we try to get through life without a great deal of conflict.

CK over the last few weeks since I started commenting again I've browsed a certain number of your posts. I've seen movie lists you recommend and video games that you reviewed. We're not so different, you and I, and my religion doesn't pose the 'monster in the closet' you'd make it out to be.

Skeptical is a good word CK and thanks for pointing that finger at the media. I think skepticism would be a good idea whenever you approach a topic where the debate is heated. We are so buried under the ‘crush’ of information that awaits us whether we’re turning on the radio, the television, the computer, picking up a book, or listening to our ‘informed’ friend. I’d hazard a guess that 50% of what we here is crap and of the 50% that is not I’d wager that our own personal views (or those of our information’s author) smash out another 40%. Sadly I don’t think we’re all doing too well on the 10% that holds some truth.

CyberKitten said...

sirkolgate said: CK with Iran I just said let's pay more attention, not... let's blow them up.

I am aware of that. I was making a general comment - prompted by your comment - that we are blowing the threat from Iran & from Islam out of all proportion.

sirkolgate said: My main point is that the 'majority' of Christians won't be declaring any 'holy wars' simply because we're much like everyone else, we try to get through life without a great deal of conflict.

I'm sure that the majority of Christians didn't want the Holy Wars we have had - as well as possible Holy Wars in the future. It has I think ever been so - but generally speaking whole populations do not declare war. Wars are started by a small select group of (usually) men. Majority opinion often has little to say on the matter.

sirkolgate said: We're not so different, you and I, and my religion doesn't pose the 'monster in the closet' you'd make it out to be.

I'm sure that we do have much in common. I'm also sure that their is much difference between us. I do not regard individual belief as any kind of 'monster'. But when large and powerful groups are driven by what I regard as highly irrational belief systems I can help being concerned. We should not forget just how powerful and deadly belief can be.

sirkolgate said: I think skepticism would be a good idea whenever you approach a topic where the debate is heated.

I think that a healthy level of scepticism is a good default position to take in general.

sirkolgate said: I’d hazard a guess that 50% of what we hear is crap

Oh... at *least* 50%!